This is something that I have been thinking for past several years now, but lack of information and experimentation is keeping me confused. Any one coming up with a direction would be of great help.
Today we have several alloys that can exhibit superconductivity at low temp. Now in space where temp is very low e.g. -100 deg C (Although temp. could be as low as absolute Zero) , these high temp. superconductors would exhibit superconductivity. So is it possible to build space stations away from impact of solar heat to have all electrical sub systems running on superconducting materials as in space they would not require cooling.
In fact doesn't normal metals like copper etc would exhibit superconductivity in space without any additional apparatus.
Hey Shyam, How come u talk about Gravity and Atmospheric pressure.. when we are supposed to discuss Superconductivity....
Yes it is possible.. And I already know that...But the thing is I want to know why isn't it being applied to the construction /Design of Space ships/Satellites specially when we employ high power magnets for rotating cabin to create artificial acceleration due to gravity.
Yes it is possible.. And I already know that...But the thing is I want to know why isn't it being applied to the construction /Design of Space ships/Satellites specially when we employ high power magnets for rotating cabin to create artificial acceleration due to gravity.
My dear young friend... To give u a brief.. I have personally worked on Superconductors.. But I am talking of design consideration and using this nature provided superconductivity in space.
By the way to give a briefing in Spaceship design and it's associated electronics , all electrical and electronic equipment that is sent in space is designed with utmost purity and is protected against radiation and is covered with thermal coatings and are generally thermally isolated.
My question is for the people who are involved in these design processes, that why do we use thermal isolation (Apart from protecting the euipment from Cosmic radiation)
when we can direectly employ this low temp. environment for superconductive applications.
Like using dark side of moon as a boon to run New age moon rovers with superconducting motors.. and same goes for all other space age machines.
By the way to give a briefing in Spaceship design and it's associated electronics , all electrical and electronic equipment that is sent in space is designed with utmost purity and is protected against radiation and is covered with thermal coatings and are generally thermally isolated.
My question is for the people who are involved in these design processes, that why do we use thermal isolation (Apart from protecting the euipment from Cosmic radiation)
when we can direectly employ this low temp. environment for superconductive applications.
Like using dark side of moon as a boon to run New age moon rovers with superconducting motors.. and same goes for all other space age machines.
hey, i was also thinking about this idea for quite a log time. with super conductor, we can have a low mass, better efficiancy solution for torquers, power bus (especially when it is longer), etc.
using directional radiators and multi layer insulaters we can maintain a perfect very low temperature in specific regions.
there was few studies performed on this subject by NASA. they found out that they have potential to provide low-weight alternative for conventional systems. But no one ever attempted to build such a spacecraft. following can be the reson
since testing is very crucial, in ground, you should be able to maintain that temperature in specific parts of the spacecraft. so the process of testing will be a great challenge.
please give your comments.
using directional radiators and multi layer insulaters we can maintain a perfect very low temperature in specific regions.
there was few studies performed on this subject by NASA. they found out that they have potential to provide low-weight alternative for conventional systems. But no one ever attempted to build such a spacecraft. following can be the reson
since testing is very crucial, in ground, you should be able to maintain that temperature in specific parts of the spacecraft. so the process of testing will be a great challenge.
please give your comments.
Kamaldeep :- Yr Idea abt. utilizing superconductivity in space is infact under research . Few points which i have my opinion are as follows :-
1. I don't think copper would be exihibiting super condutcivity at temperatures like -ve 100 C , since super conducting magnets which we use , are kept at temperatures around 4 K and are not made of pure copper , we use alloy instead . I don't know the exact reason but I think superconducitivity also needs number of free electrons available in matter at near absoulute zero temp.
2. Regarding using low temperature in space for super conductivity .. i think safety reason must be posing some restrictions as if by accident temperature changes and matter looses super conductivity ....,Just think A potential difference of 2 mv can cause around 750 Amps current to flow in a superconductor practically in field and if suddenly conductor property changes to resistive ...... bingo... huge amount of heat will cause a problem .. in superconductors a difference of 10K can cause this.
1. I don't think copper would be exihibiting super condutcivity at temperatures like -ve 100 C , since super conducting magnets which we use , are kept at temperatures around 4 K and are not made of pure copper , we use alloy instead . I don't know the exact reason but I think superconducitivity also needs number of free electrons available in matter at near absoulute zero temp.
2. Regarding using low temperature in space for super conductivity .. i think safety reason must be posing some restrictions as if by accident temperature changes and matter looses super conductivity ....,Just think A potential difference of 2 mv can cause around 750 Amps current to flow in a superconductor practically in field and if suddenly conductor property changes to resistive ...... bingo... huge amount of heat will cause a problem .. in superconductors a difference of 10K can cause this.
@ above
I am strongly agree with you.
We can have really low mass transformers and generators with superconductors...but as you said if the material in any mean looses the superconductivity....then there will be cumulative heat generation which could destroy the whole plant.....
@ author and all
but as normally done using control systems, the whole plant can be monitored for temperature and all, and if any rise above threshold is detected, the proper preventive action taken at time we can realise such system practically..
one doubt that I have, How we are going to transfer that energy to earth... I mean using superconductive wires is not possible... we cant have such hanging wires connected from earth to space lol..... plz explain this also....I mean how to transfer that energy to earth.... wireless energy transmission is under experimentation only...
I am strongly agree with you.
We can have really low mass transformers and generators with superconductors...but as you said if the material in any mean looses the superconductivity....then there will be cumulative heat generation which could destroy the whole plant.....
@ author and all
but as normally done using control systems, the whole plant can be monitored for temperature and all, and if any rise above threshold is detected, the proper preventive action taken at time we can realise such system practically..
one doubt that I have, How we are going to transfer that energy to earth... I mean using superconductive wires is not possible... we cant have such hanging wires connected from earth to space lol..... plz explain this also....I mean how to transfer that energy to earth.... wireless energy transmission is under experimentation only...
All these time I was thinking we were talking about super fluidity; Am really really sorry.
Here's some excerpts from Wiki
Superfluidity is a phase of matter or description of heat capacity in which unusual effects are observed when liquids, typically of helium-4 or helium-3, overcome friction by surface interaction when at a stage (known as the "lambda point" for helium-4) at which the liquid's viscosity becomes zero. Also known as a major facet in the study of quantum hydrodynamics
Here's some excerpts from Wiki
Superfluidity is a phase of matter or description of heat capacity in which unusual effects are observed when liquids, typically of helium-4 or helium-3, overcome friction by surface interaction when at a stage (known as the "lambda point" for helium-4) at which the liquid's viscosity becomes zero. Also known as a major facet in the study of quantum hydrodynamics
Superconductivity is a phenomenon occurring in certain materials generally at very low temperatures, characterized by exactly zero electrical resistance and the exclusion of the interior magnetic field; and I'm not pretty sure that at zero Kelvin, Can't digest that magnetic field be zero; and may cause in the end, lead to increase in Temperature while conducting, and eventually; Resistance to electric flow, which may become cumulative
"Shamzu and Resonance Only"
Thanks a lot. It was really what I was seeking. I really appreciate your comments.Hope to see more of your comments to this discussion.
Superconductive materials if used as a part of the structural building units of the spacecraft/rover , using them to create magnetic field for levitation or motors , asassisted with traditional backup for locomotion (e.g. motors that are properly shielded and that use conventional space tech. and electronics) ; with help of magnetic field created with these superconductors or with there physical magnetic properties, Isn't it possible to design a very efficient spacecraft. That if suppose set on jupitar's moon or may be farther, would not receive sufficient temp. variations due to sun , possibly we can employ this tech. in such a scenerio.
Thanks a lot. It was really what I was seeking. I really appreciate your comments.Hope to see more of your comments to this discussion.
Superconductive materials if used as a part of the structural building units of the spacecraft/rover , using them to create magnetic field for levitation or motors , asassisted with traditional backup for locomotion (e.g. motors that are properly shielded and that use conventional space tech. and electronics) ; with help of magnetic field created with these superconductors or with there physical magnetic properties, Isn't it possible to design a very efficient spacecraft. That if suppose set on jupitar's moon or may be farther, would not receive sufficient temp. variations due to sun , possibly we can employ this tech. in such a scenerio.
Using Superconductivity for electrical transmission is a dream for every scientist working in this field. The day this is acheived at room temp. , the way we look at electricity would change. We would have 100% efficient grids, electrical systems, this would be a breakthrough at par with Nuclear Tech. that was discovered in past
century, in short GREEN PLANET!!
Wireless electrical transmission was demostrated 120 yrs back by Nikola Tesla. Very advanced technologies discovered by him, layed along with him in his grave.Please search his name on google, and pay ode to the greatest scientist ever born on the planet. His acheivements can be considered more than that of Einstein or da Vinci.
However even if we are able to discover that today then, we might need to have a complete change to the way our electronic devices work. High Voltage Interference can roast a computer, mobile and even all of the electrical items. This would make mankind change everything that has been discovered in the past.And Wireless electrical transmission is also not practical, as how would your power company charge you for it?? Electricity is not information that can be encrypted. It would have to made available to all else could be stolen easily
.
century, in short GREEN PLANET!!
Wireless electrical transmission was demostrated 120 yrs back by Nikola Tesla. Very advanced technologies discovered by him, layed along with him in his grave.Please search his name on google, and pay ode to the greatest scientist ever born on the planet. His acheivements can be considered more than that of Einstein or da Vinci.
However even if we are able to discover that today then, we might need to have a complete change to the way our electronic devices work. High Voltage Interference can roast a computer, mobile and even all of the electrical items. This would make mankind change everything that has been discovered in the past.And Wireless electrical transmission is also not practical, as how would your power company charge you for it?? Electricity is not information that can be encrypted. It would have to made available to all else could be stolen easily
.@ Atul
Thanks for sharing your views, hope the above thread answers your thought process.
@ Shyam
Rightly said by Atul, go through Power Electronics by M.H.Rashid, also refer book by Boylestad as starter reference.
Instead of studying about Superconductivity though wiki, go through some good Applied Physics books. That would make you understand the awe of superconducters.
These are really amazing materials, every superconductor does not behave with same electrical /magnetic properties, they do wierd things!!!!.... Study about them, am sure this would generate a lot of curiosity.
Thanks for sharing your views, hope the above thread answers your thought process.
@ Shyam
Rightly said by Atul, go through Power Electronics by M.H.Rashid, also refer book by Boylestad as starter reference.
Instead of studying about Superconductivity though wiki, go through some good Applied Physics books. That would make you understand the awe of superconducters.
These are really amazing materials, every superconductor does not behave with same electrical /magnetic properties, they do wierd things!!!!
.... Study about them, am sure this would generate a lot of curiosity.@debajyoti
Weightlessness in space causes adverse effects on health like losing bone mass. artificial gravitational acceleration is proposed for long term manned missions to avoid such things and for ease of mobility.
you can achieve this by constantly rotating the crew module at an angular velocity. the centrifugal force will give an acceleration. according to theory of relativity, you cannot distinguish between acceleration due to gravity and the inertial acceleration. it works the same way as how we can drive motor cycle inside a circus cage.
Because of the large mass of such a system, it was never used in any of the missions. But nasa has designed it for the International Space Station (ISS) that is being assembled. But never flown (I heard ISS is facing serious budget problems).
@Atul
Hey we are here to help each other and know more. So its ok to make mistakes.
One of the very important application of superconductors in spacecraft will be attitude control system. conventional system uses liquid fuel engines which seriously limits the mission life. and the magnetic torquers we use are not that powerful. we can make powerful torquers with super conductors.
Weightlessness in space causes adverse effects on health like losing bone mass. artificial gravitational acceleration is proposed for long term manned missions to avoid such things and for ease of mobility.
you can achieve this by constantly rotating the crew module at an angular velocity. the centrifugal force will give an acceleration. according to theory of relativity, you cannot distinguish between acceleration due to gravity and the inertial acceleration. it works the same way as how we can drive motor cycle inside a circus cage.
Because of the large mass of such a system, it was never used in any of the missions. But nasa has designed it for the International Space Station (ISS) that is being assembled. But never flown (I heard ISS is facing serious budget problems).
@Atul
Hey we are here to help each other and know more. So its ok to make mistakes.
One of the very important application of superconductors in spacecraft will be attitude control system. conventional system uses liquid fuel engines which seriously limits the mission life. and the magnetic torquers we use are not that powerful. we can make powerful torquers with super conductors.
It'l be a marvel if the idea can be realized but i think these factors may effect the superconductivity in outter space
->Strong and stray magnetic fields due the stellar bodies or planets
->Extra stellar Radiation
->Transport (its obvious)
The first two effect don't have a finite shielding until today. We can use large magnetic fields to divert the incoming radiation but that would be far higher than the critical magnetic fields.
I believe that in future there would be a much better range of High-Tc and superior theory than the BCS which may make Superconductors be available for use in the normal temperature conditions.
->Strong and stray magnetic fields due the stellar bodies or planets
->Extra stellar Radiation
->Transport (its obvious)
The first two effect don't have a finite shielding until today. We can use large magnetic fields to divert the incoming radiation but that would be far higher than the critical magnetic fields.
I believe that in future there would be a much better range of High-Tc and superior theory than the BCS which may make Superconductors be available for use in the normal temperature conditions.
Latest news: New kind of ionic thrusters for space crafts have been developed. Superconducting Plasma Rockets. with the latest model using superconducting magnets to massively increase the strength of the magnetic field driving the output without increasing the weight.
link: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/06/vx-200-demonstrates-superconducting-first-stage-at-full-power/
link: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/06/v
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